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  • Sandgar
    Sandgar closed this thread because:
    Vote ended so discussion ends too
    05:11, September 9, 2016

    After multiple arguments on the recent voting thread pertaining to Flaky's gender, I've decided to move all discussions to a separate thread as this will make voting easier.

    If you have any arguments for or against Flaky's gender being changed to Unknown, please state them below instead of on the main thread. Also note that this is a discussion thread and therefore does not require you to use templates, and using them will be counted as spam.

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    • I don't see why the vote is even necessary. Of course, it's a more efficient way of doing things, but the confirmation made on Reddit in 2014 is a lot more reliable and acceptable than the one made two years earlier in 2012 on their Twitter account. Let's look at the two posts in comparison again, shall we?

      Twitter confirmation

      Flaky's older gender confirmation from Twitter back in 2012.

      Kenn saying Flaky's Gender is up to fans

      Flaky's more recent gender confirmation on the Reddit Q&A post back in 2014.

      The one on Twitter doesn't take into consideration what was being said by the opposing party. It simply states "Flaky is a Girl", providing no valid evidence for the claim being made apart from "I call her a Girl all the time", which is completely subjective and doesn't provide any actual evidence for the claim being true.

      So let's look at the "overwhelming" evidence we have for Flaky being a Girl. And, for your entertainment, let me disprove it for you.

      "Flaky is voiced by a Female voice actor/sounds feminine" - Sniffles and Cub are also voiced by Female voice actors, and they're both explicitly Male.

      "Flaky has pink accessories/posessions" - ...So? Boys can like the colour pink, too, remember? I mean, what happened to the "Girl's don't have to have eyelashes" argument? Isn't this the same idea?

      "Kenn Navarro and Warren Graff both think that Flaky is a Girl" - You may think "Aha! We've got him on something" ...however, Kenn Navarro put this opinion aside to confirm that Flaky's gender can go any way in the very screenshot you see above. Also, never, in any one of the posts Graff made saying Flaky was a Girl, did he provide actual evidence for it. And, if he did, it probably falls under the list of points I'm currently covering.

      "Flaky went into the Girl's bathroom in Somethin' Fishy" - No, he didn't. He went into the Males. If he'd have gone into the Female's bathroom, there would have been blood behind him from when Giggles and Petunia were just brutally murdered in the toilets. And, before you say "That was just an animation error", explain to me how he could've been in the same room as them and not run for his damn life when he heard Giggles and Petunia screeching in pain while being devoured? He was quite obviously in a different room. At the rate the speed the blood was moving, it would have most likely reached Flaky by the time Petunia was killed if he was in the same room. Also, if he was in the same room, it would have been impossible for him not to hear the screaming.

      "Flaky attended a Girl's only party in Royal Flush" - Now, I'll admit, this post would be a valid point to make, but it can be debunked and, when you get down to it, doesn't have much validity. If it was Petunia or Giggles that arrived uninvited, Lammy probably would have just giggled and let them in, but she hesitated.

      Now, someone said earlier this is because Flaky might have been uninvited, or turned up late, or Lammy may not have expected Flaky to build up the guts to show up. However, again, I can disprove these. If Flaky was uninvited, I doubt Lammy would have cared. In fact, Lammy is shown as a kind, compassionate, caring character who feels genuine remorse whenever she witnesses another character's death. In fact, when she is framed for the killings by Mr. Pickle, she's frantic to try and explain herself. I think that, as a character who holds that level of compassion, Lammy wouldn't care if Flaky showed up late or wasn't invited, but she hesitated anyway. Also, I'd like to point out that we've never really seen Lammy and Flaky interact before this episode. In fact, the closest we've seen to them interacting is Flaky fleeing from Lammy when he thinks she's a murderer. You expect me to believe that Lammy can know about Flaky's anxious personality when she's never actually spent time with him or made an attempt to get to know him before that episode? I don't think you do...

      Lammy hesitated to let Flaky in, and seemed confused, because Flaky is not Female. And it's unheard of for a Male to show up at a Girl's only party, or any tea party in general, because they'd get laughed at. I mean, look at Flaky. He's genuinely, visibly anxious and worried. Of course she was surprised to see him. He's a guy.

      Back to the posts on Twitter and Reddit.

      We've already established that the post on Twitter was subjective, displayed no evidence, and was biased against those who thought Flaky was Male, regardless of what the majority thought. The whole theory that Flaky is a Girl came out of nowhere. In fact, the reason it all started before 2012 was merely because Flaky had a Female voice actor, which I have just established isn't valid evidence for his gender. The 2012 confirmation refers to only one side of the discussion and, regardless of who it came from, means it wasn't neutral and it definitely wasn't non-biased.

      What about the 2014 Reddit confirmation that Flaky's gender is up to interpretation?

      This post referred to both sides of the argument, as well as acknowledging the two main points of evidence that supposedly backed up both sides of the dispute. The main point from the idea that Flaky was a Boy came from Rhode Montijo, the person who designed Flaky, designing him initially as Male, and continuing to refer to him as Male ever since. The main point from the idea that Flaky was a Girl came from the fact that he had a Female voice actor, Nica Lorber. However, and, yes, I'm saying it a third time, we've just established that this point holds no validity at all, haven't we?

      The confirmation on Reddit refers to both sides of the argument. Meaning it is much more neutral and non-biased than the one back in 2012. It is also more recent and, given the fact that Kenn Navarro contradicts the statements made in 2012's Twitter post, this makes the Twitter confirmation not only outdated but obsolete as well. I mean, come on! Before he reaches the conclusion of the confirmation, he states that he, personally, believes that Flaky is a Girl. He sets his own opinion aside to conclude that Flaky has no gender and is fully up to interpretation. Shouldn't THAT be enough for you? It's much less subjective and biased than Twitter's 2012 confirmation, and tends to land itself on the more objective and reliable spectrum when it comes to the information mentioned in the post.

      It goes without saying, the confirmation from Reddit is more detailed, more recent, less biased, more neutral, the conclusion is not subjective and is ultimately more reliable and valid than the information given on Twitter. I was told that this wiki survived by making sure that the information it displays is 100% factual, non-subjective and can be trusted when it comes to validity. I mean, Hell, I was given a warning for adding false, non-reliable information to Flaky's page, which admittedly I shouldn't have done. The confirmation post that Flaky was a Girl was biased, under-detailed, abrupt and subjective. If you wont follow your own damn guidelines, then what sort of example are you setting?

      The confirmation from Reddit is simply more valid and solid than the older one from 2012. That's the long and short of it. Evidence is shown, opinions are set aside to make way for solid facts and both sides of the discussion are addressed. The Twitter post did none of those things. None of you have yet been able to attack my argument and dent its' validity. None of you have been able to prove my argument wrong. Yet, most of you still treat me like some deluded maniac that merely wants his precious little headcanons to become canon. Don't you see? The post that confirmed Flaky is a Girl is so invalid that the fact his gender is set to "Female" on his page means that you're displaying biased, invalid, untrustworthy information on his page. By changing it to "Unknown", we'd be using non-biased, neutral information. Setting the gender to "Unknown" doesn't rule out the possibility that Flaky is a Girl, and it doesn't rule out the possibility that he's a Boy, either. I mean, Navarro literally stated that his gender is very much open to interpretation. We're merely stating that both possibilities are at least likely and not excluding an entire side of the debate.

      I don't really think there's much more for me to say. The information suggesting that Flaky's gender is Unknown not only outweighs and out-validates the information suggesting he is a Girl, but it is also much more believable and realistic, and acknowledges both sides of this debate. My argument is solid. As solid as steel. Denying that Flaky's gender being changed to "Unknown" would not only be more valid than keeping it as Female, but would be based on much more reliable information than the gender it is right now just seems foolish and seems to be to be a bit more of a double-standard. I mean, this is a wikipedia, for Christ's sake. It's supposed to state solid, pure facts. The idea that Flaky is Female can easily be proved wrong. As long as we're displaying information that holds no validity or reliability, we're not only being plain ignorant, but we're not exactly doing a good job as a wiki, are we?

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    • Once again you call one of the show's creators biased and unreliable. He doesn't need to provide evidence seeing as he is counted as evidence. Also you can't call him biased for not seeing both sides of the story because he created the character, so it's his decision and his decision alone as to what Flaky's gender is.

      If anyone here is biased, it's you. You blindly see this post by Kenn and suddenly the whole fandom's supposed to roll over? I highly doubt that'll happen. You completely disregard the fact that the majority opinion remains that Flaky is female.

      As a wiki it's our main goal to have as accurate and definite information as possible, and having a page say "Unknown" sure as hell isn't definite. We only have one definite answer and that is that Flaky is a girl, and once again, Warren doesn't need to provide evidence since he designed the character, and therefore, he decides her gender, and from what we've gathered, he decided she's female.

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    • making arguements less then 1519 words would be nice. No one is going o read it over 400 words. I even stopped reading it because it was so tedious to read.

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    • Mr Creeper500 wrote:
      "Once again you call one of the show's creators biased and unreliable. He doesn't need to provide evidence seeing as he is counted as evidence. Also you can't call him biased for not seeing both sides of the story because he created the character, so it's his decision and his decision alone as to what Flaky's gender is."

      I'm not calling the person who made the post personally biased or unreliable. Where did you get that from? I'm merely pointing out that the information he gave was biased and unreliable. Also, Rhode Montijo designed Flaky. And he has explicitly stated that Flaky is Male since day one. If the person who made the character dictates the gender, then, sorry to break it to you, but Flaky would be Male.

      "If anyone here is biased, it's you. You blindly see this post by Kenn and suddenly the whole fandom's supposed to roll over? I highly doubt that'll happen. You completely disregard the fact that the majority opinion remains that Flaky is female."

      How am I biased? My personal opinion is that Flaky is Male, but I'm setting that side to decide on a more believable option. One that, for some reason, everybody is against, despite the fact that I have disproved the argument that Flaky is Female over and over in the span of about two days. I'm anything but biased.

      Also, it doesn't matter what the opinions of the majority are. As we have previously established, this wiki works on facts, not opinions. The idea that Flaky is Female is not fact. It was an idea that was thrust into the community with flawed evidence and a poor defence. I don't expect the whole fandom to roll over for me. I merely want you to acknowledge your own damn narrative. If the wiki is supposed to state facts and facts alone, then stating that Flaky is Female when he has LITERALLY been confirmed as genderless more recently is going against that logic.

      "As a wiki it's our main goal to have as accurate and definite information as possible, and having a page say "Unknown" sure as hell isn't definite. We only have one definite answer and that is that Flaky is a girl, and once again, Warren doesn't need to provide evidence since he designed the character, and therefore, he decides her gender, and from what we've gathered, he decided she's female."

      No, it's not definite, but the idea that Flaky is Female is much less accurate and valid than the idea that he's genderless, nonbinary or "Unknown". Hell, even the idea that Flaky is a Boy has more ground to stand on than the Girl argument. Kenn Navarro has given you a much more accurate, believable, reliable and stable argument than Flaky being Female, yet you continue to cling onto false information. Also, for God's sake, Warren didn't design the character. Rhode did, and Rhode, once again, has been stating that Flaky is Male since day one. Once again, your own logic defeats you.


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    • Sandgar wrote:
      "making arguements less then 1519 words would be nice. No one is going o read it over 400 words. I even stopped reading it because it was so tedious to read."

      If you didn't even read my argument, then you're contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion and just being plain ignorant. No offense, of course. But, if nobody is reading what I'm saying, then nobody has the credability to be able to prove it wrong, yet, you're all trying anyway.


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    • and do you want to be banned. I read all your arguements. or at most skimmed them due to their lengths. Also make your stuff shorter on people can read it, and make thoughtful decision s.

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    • Sandgar wrote:
      "and do you want to be banned. I read all your arguements. or at most skimmed them due to their lengths. Also make your stuff shorter on people can read it, and make thoughtful decision s."

      Wait, why would you ban me? I'm doing nothing that violates the guidelines for the wiki. You could suggest that I'm being disrespectful to staff, but disagreeing with an Admin isn't disrespect. If I did anything else that came across as harmful, I'm terribly sorry.

      My argument is solid. Nobody has been able to breach its' validity yet. Am I being banned for proving someone wrong? Again, I hold no grudges and I would never hold my opinion above everyone else's. I have said that I think Flaky is a Boy, but I am compromising for a more reliable, believable source of information. I'm merely stating facts and disproving incorrect statements and information. I'm not personally attacking anyone and I'm not vandalising. I'm making a case against the opposing side of the debate.


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    • TheMightyContorted wrote: "As a wiki it's our main goal to have as accurate and definite information as possible, and having a page say "Unknown" sure as hell isn't definite. We only have one definite answer and that is that Flaky is a girl, and once again, Warren doesn't need to provide evidence since he designed the character, and therefore, he decides her gender, and from what we've gathered, he decided she's female."

      No, it's not definite, but the idea that Flaky is Female is much less accurate and valid than the idea that he's genderless, nonbinary or "Unknown". Hell, even the idea that Flaky is a Boy has more ground to stand on than the Girl argument. Kenn Navarro has given you a much more accurate, believable, reliable and stable argument than Flaky being Female, yet you continue to cling onto false information. Also, for God's sake, Warren didn't design the character. Rhode did, and Rhode, once again, has been stating that Flaky is Male since day one. Once again, your own logic defeats you.


      I admit you're right about the Rhode part, sorry, I myself was under false information.

      I still hold firm to me belief, and as hollow as you find Warren's confirmation on her gender, just as hollow do I find your belief that Flaky is male. You're the only person in the past 4 years who felt this argument needed to be brought back to life, almost everyone else has accepted that she's female at this point. And believe you me, that fandom will not easily give in, most of the HTF crew(especially Kenn) likes to leave these things to fandom opinion, and so far fandom opinion is ruling female. Also, before you use one of my own arguments against me again, I know a wii is supposed to carry the most accurate information possible, but according to most of the responses we get to questions we ask Kenn, he likes leaving what's official and what's not to the fandom. So we will declare official whatever the fandom-based community of this wiki declares official.

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    • Mr Creeper500 wrote:

      "I admit you're right about the Rhode part, sorry, I myself was under false information.

      I still hold firm to me belief, and as hollow as you find Warren's confirmation on her gender, just as hollow do I find your belief that Flaky is male. You're the only person in the past 4 years who felt this argument needed to be brought back to life, almost everyone else has accepted that she's female at this point."

      First of all, Kenn confirmed it, not Warren...moving on.

      Those people who accepted that he's Female accepted it under flawed, incorrect information. Simply put, they're wrong. The idea that Flaky is Female was coughed up out of absolutely nowhere. And, initially, the only excuse the people who supported that theory could use was "She has a Female voice actor". A point which I have just proven wrong.

      This argument needs to be brought back to life because your wiki is sitting upon a huge, controversial misunderstanding of information. The idea that Flaky is Female has been proven wrong, as I have just demonstrated to you. As long as you have the words "Female (confirmed)" beneath the gender section, you are relaying false information to those who read that page, which is against this exact SAME wiki's rules, might I add.

      "And believe you me, that fandom will not easily give in, most of the HTF crew(especially Kenn) likes to leave these things to fandom opinion, and so far fandom opinion is ruling female."

      So, in a simplified chain of words, the fandom are ignorant? The idea that Flaky is Female has been proven wrong. Not just by me, but no doubt by people before me. If the fandom doesn't give in to valid information, as well as detailed proof that they have been wrong for the past four years, then I hold the intelligent higher ground. I disproved the entire theory that Flaky was Female. It doesn't matter whether or not I lose the vote because, if I do, the people that vote to oppose the suggestion will do so under the influence of pure ignorance. Some of them have seen my argument, been unable to disprove it, and will vote against the idea anyway. Like I said, ignorance.

      "Also, before you use one of my own arguments against me again, I know a wii is supposed to carry the most accurate information possible, but according to most of the responses we get to questions we ask Kenn, he likes leaving what's official and what's not to the fandom. So we will declare official whatever the fandom-based community of this wiki declares official."

      Even if that information is flawed and quite clearly illogical and invalid? That's not what a wiki does. A wiki is supposed to educate people by relaying trusthworthy, reliable information. The information that suggests Flaky is a Girl is flawed, invalid, not nearly detailed enough to be considered as fact and...well, in short, incorrect. As I stated earlier, allowing the fandom to dictate what's canon and what isn't is very, very stupid because it allows flawed, invalid information to be labelled as canon without MondoMedia's input or approval and, in this instance, that is exactly what has happened.

      If the fandom has sat for four years ignoring pure fact, then, you're right, I have no hope to convince them. I mean, if they refuse to listen to Kenn Navarro himself, there's absolutely no hope at all. But, guess what I take away from it anyway? Even if you ban me, which one of you has actually threatened to do, I would still hold the intelligent higher ground. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm saying "Everyone who disagrees with me is stupid!". It's just me stating that I have proven those people wrong. And, trust me, I feel like a complete dickhead for saying that, but facts are facts. And the idea that Flaky is a Girl is not a fact, despite what the fandom says.

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    • You are the only one here who believes you are right, and therefore you have no right to say so. Here my old argument is once again valid, what the creators of the show says is law, and they say it's up to the fandom to decide. You may form part of the fandom but you are not the fandom. The wiki didn't give the fandom the information, the fandom gave the wiki the information. That's the point of Wikia as a whole, fans working to educate fellow fans on topics they have a mutual interest in. I agree that a blatant answer saying "she is female", "he is male" or "they are asexual" would overrule the fandom, but since the closest thing we have to an answer as definite as that being Warren Graff saying "she's a girl", we're sticking to that point. Like it or not we're putting this up to a vote until we get clearer and more recent information(not that I do not see the 2014 Reddit posts as clear information, as it was Kenn's normal giving of the choice to the fandom), and the decision of said vote will be final, and you cannot do anything about that.

      Also, a request from my side to make your posts easier to read, please plan your <div> markups by using "Source Mode" while writing your messages so that they don't leave the message all within one quote class.

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    • It doesn't matter who believes I'm right and it doesn't matter who doesn't. I am right. Want to know how I came to that conclusion? Because nobody has been able to disprove me. Not even you. In fact, I don't see why we're even still arguing. You seem to be improvising at this point. You're just saying the same things over and over and your points sound more like excuses than anything else...no offense, of course. Your argument is well-structured. Just....not very well thought out...

      See, this is where the HTF fandom went wrong all those years ago. You exclude anyone who disagrees with you. My argument is solid. It uses facts and logic. Everyone who has opposed me has either used statements that are easily disproven, unreliable information, flawed logic or has simply began making up excuses. If I'm not the fandom, then you're not the fandom either. Not one single individual is the fandom. By alienating the beliefs of an entire part of said fandom, you are dividing the fandom into two parts, and actively behaving in a prejudiced manner to the people you've excluded. That simulates the nature of a very toxic fandom. I'm sure you don't want your community to be seen as toxic, do you? This is the level of prejudice that Godawful fandoms like that of Steven Universe, Sonic, My Little Pony, Five Night's at Freddies and even Undertale display on a daily basis. Just because the opinions of the many outweigh the opinions of the few doesn't mean that you have the right to exclude that few from what the fandom decides is canon. Kenn said that Flaky could be anything. He means that Flaky's gender isn't meant to be specific. It's meant to be up to interpretation. So, for the majority of the fandom to decide "Screw everyone that thinks differently. Our opinions are more important" is a really toxic way of interpreting this statement...

      That being said, saying that the fandom has more authority than the creators of the HTF universe to dictate what's canon and what isn't is incredibly...well, selfish. I can't really find any other words appropriate enough to explain it, so don't take that as a personal insult. I can see that you're quite clearly an intelligent, genuinely level-headed dude. Your idea of what power the fandom holds, however, is slightly....what's the word..."deluded"? You're basically saying that you own the rights to decide what's what in a universe you didn't even create. If your respect for MondoMedia wasn't abundantly clear, which it is, I would say that your statements about the fandom as a whole paints the community as unappreciative of the effort that goes into the show. Again, please don't take this the wrong way. As I have stated, you're a decent guy. Your views are just a bit questionable.

      It's also pretty damn contradictory, as well. When Flaky was confirmed as Female, you all praised the Lord and decided "MondMedia confirmed it. It's canon" But, when the confirmation doesn't correlate with your opinions, you say "WE decide what's canon in this fandom! Not the creators! Us!" And, whereas you supposedly have Mondo's permission, which is a statement I am still to be convinced is true, it's still an ultimately poor statement to cough up.

      As I have stated, I know fully well that I will lose the vote. But, if I do, that will just prove that the fandom is exactly as toxic as I have stated. If you wont listen to logic, facts and reasoning, all organised atop a solid and well backed up argument, there's no hope at all. Not all the fandom will be that way, of course. But of a majority of it seems to be leaning towards that attitude. Again, you're a decent dude. What you're saying is just sort of foolish.

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    • I never said we decide what's canon, I said that Kenn leaves lots of decisions up to the fandom, I'm still holding strong that the solid, official, clear and straight forward proof we got from Warren those years a go is right, and you sure as hell are not swaying my opinion.

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    • It's blatantly obvious that I'm not swaying your opinion, regardless of the lack of evidence you have to back it up. Like I said, pure ignorance. Also, you've forgotten that I went into a very detailed and informative explanation of how unreliable Warren's post on the official Twitter page, assuming it was him, actually was. The post was biased, un-neutral, subjective and, overall, those factors all cooperate to make the post extremely invalid, meaning the information that the post holds is unreliable. And I just proved the "Flaky is a Girl" theory wrong, which probably only added insult to injury. Apologies for that.

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    • well as of today staff will not be taken on issues, unless posted under the QA page on MondoMedias actual site or under the HTF twitter account. Staff will not be taken into consideradation due to their contradictory statememts.

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    • I will also add that this wiki as an obligation to vote and toake things canon by voting. As should in most cases try to make it canon (with some staff info as a base) and to share this info with mondo and the HTF crew.

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    • Hohohoooh my Gooooood! HEUUUUURGH!!!

      So, despite the fact that the information you have used to label Flaky's official gender as "Female" is very much incorrect and easily proven to be so, you're still refusing to change it to something that came from a more reliable source of information? Like I said, pure ignorance.

      Also, WHAT?!

      Are you referring to the staff of the wiki or the staff at MondoMedia? If the latter is true, did you seriously just say that, from now on, they will have NO say in what's canon in their own damn universe?! Seriously?! You're claiming the authority to dictate what's right and wrong in a universe you didn't even help create?!

      I've...I'm at a loss for words. I genuinely dunno what to say. Please, for the love of God, tell me what I just said was wrong. Tell me I just misunderstood and you're not actually just gonna go ahead and do this. If I am wrong, I swear to you, I will shoot myself up the arse with my airsoft rifle.

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    • I said on official are only credible source and HTF staff are not valid sources anymore. Also Kenn Navarro gave us the permission to make anything we vote on canonical. This is what he vote is going to be. All former confirmations from Kenn will be voted on and many will be removed. So do not think.this is a thing against you.

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    • Right. Okay. Well, I did make a promise, but I had my fingers crossed, so no BB up the arse from me. Although this is still a very unfair thing to do, I don't suppose there's any point in me continuing this discussion. i suppose I should put it to rest with my intelligent higher ground intact.

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    • TheMightyContorted wrote: Right. Okay. Well, I did make a promise, but I had my fingers crossed, so no BB up the arse from me. Although this is still a very unfair thing to do, I don't suppose there's any point in me continuing this discussion. i suppose I should put it to rest with my intelligent higher ground intact.

      That would be a good idea seeing as your persistent use of the word ignorant to describe the other editors of this wiki, who are mostly admins at this point, meant we were already considering how long before it would be considered rude at a block-worthy level.

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    • Mr Creeper500 wrote:

      TheMightyContorted wrote: Right. Okay. Well, I did make a promise, but I had my fingers crossed, so no BB up the arse from me. Although this is still a very unfair thing to do, I don't suppose there's any point in me continuing this discussion. i suppose I should put it to rest with my intelligent higher ground intact.

      That would be a good idea seeing as your persistent use of the word ignorant to describe the other editors of this wiki, who are mostly admins at this point, meant we were already considering how long before it would be considered rude at a block-worthy level.

      If you guys are already planning to block or ban me then I honestly have nothing to say about that. It should speak for itself, and I wont stoop to the level of being judgemental about people I don't know. However, that statement was not meant to come across as an insult. More of an observation. And it wasn't directly aimed at the staff of this wiki until you started ignoring the points I'd been making in my argument. Like I said, I make no judgements based on text on a screen, and I said "No offense" multiple times. I even said that I thought you were a genuinely level-headed guy and went as far as to say that, despite being significantly flawed, your argument was well-structured. Hell, I even apologised to the admins on my blog last night. I thought it was a "no hard feelings" kind of thing.

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    • TheMightyContorted wrote: If you guys are already planning to block or ban me then I honestly have nothing to say about that. It should speak for itself, and I wont stoop to the level of being judgemental about people I don't know. However, that statement was not meant to come across as an insult. More of an observation. And it wasn't directly aimed at the staff of this wiki until you started ignoring the points I'd been making in my argument. Like I said, I make no judgements based on text on a screen, and I said "No offense" multiple times. I even said that I thought you were a genuinely level-headed guy and went as far as to say that, despite being significantly flawed, your argument was well-structured. Hell, I even apologised to the admins on my blog last night. I thought it was a "no hard feelings" kind of thing.

      I never said we were planning on blocking you, I merely stated that we were considering how may times the "no offense" statement can be used before people taking offense regardlessly. And it wasn't so much a warning or a threat as it was a heads up.

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    • Ah. Thanks for that, then, I suppose. I'm not gonna bother arguing about this any more. My argument wasn't and still isn't proven wrong in any sense, but I don't suppose it matters. The result of the vote will be quite clear, and the wiki will continue holding onto false information. I don't suppose that's my problem, so I'm just gonna retire from this discourse while I still can.

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    • I know I was gonna just move on and forget about this, but I did just happen to notice this in the FAQ that sort of supports my argument in the debate that the confirmation in 2012 wasn't a confirmation at all. Interesting, right?

      Conception

      Ken Pontac stating that Mondo wishes for Flaky's gender to remain a mystery.

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    • It ain't false when this vote ends. Also for those who are worried. The staff validity vote will be held after this. So right now staff stuff is still considered canon, but once this vote passes, all staff sayings other then from mondo or the twitter account for mondo or HTF will be taken as the only valid stuff, while all the rest will be validated by votes held here in the community.

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    • Honestly, you seem to be acting rather hostile towards me. You also seem to be trying to rub the fact that people didn't support the change in my face. Care to explain why?

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    • TheMightyContorted wrote: Ah. Thanks for that, then, I suppose. I'm not gonna bother arguing about this any more. My argument wasn't and still isn't proven wrong in any sense, but I don't suppose it matters. The result of the vote will be quite clear, and the wiki will continue holding onto false information. I don't suppose that's my problem, so I'm just gonna retire from this discourse while I still can.

      Seems like I missed out alot, but you should know that one of your problems is that you are coming of as pretty arrogant. You are going on and on about how you "won" all these discussions and how much more interlligent you are than the rest of the Wiki and you are making it sound that it's facts, when it's really nothing more than your own personal opinions. Just like it's my personal opinion that it's just BS. I am always enjoying an interesting debate, but the reason why I choosed to drop this was because of those over the top long comment of yours. Yeah, mine were pretty long too, but your were longer and they just got longer and longer. I was there to debate and not to write nor read essays, as Sandgar nicely wrote it, spot on before. In time, I just didn't cared to read it all and then there were no point in discussing anymore. Drop all your arrogance and accept that the community has spooken. Go and try the luck on the HTFF Wiki instead. Now I better wrap this comment up before it get's too long. /Kenny Navarro (talk)

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    • I am hostile to you, because you are hostile to me. You have given me absolutely no reason to be polite to you. Treat people like you want to be treated.

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    • I'm the one being arrogant? I said that I hated acting like a cocky, stuck up jerk but what I said was true. There is little to no valid evidence to state that Flaky is Female. The only main member of the HTF crew that says so for sure is Warren. Rhode says he's a Boy, and both Ken Pontac and Kenn Navarro say his gender is up to interpretation. Also, you can't "win" an argument. It's a discussion, not a competition. The closest you can come to "winning" is proving the opposing side wrong while not being proved wrong yourself. I did both.

      Also, as I have stated, if you're not even going to bother reading my replies, then you don't have the credibility to state that my argument was flawed. I used common sense and all my points were either backed up by reasonable logic or pure facts. None of you were able to prove me wrong, in fact. Sure, the community has spoken. But as long as they believe in information that has been proven false and invalid, I still hold the intelligent higher ground. What the vote ends on doesn't matter to me.

      Honestly, you need to stop antagonizing me. Just because I proved you wrong doesn't mean you get to be rude and genuinely unkind to me. I'm not just some asshole that wanted to kick up some controversy so I could brag about "oh, how great I am!". You can sit there and smile all you want, but the information you're basing his gender on is still wrong.

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    • Sandgar wrote:
      "I am hostile to you, because you are hostile to me. You have given me absolutely no reason to be polite to you. Treat people like you want to be treated."

      And you've given me a reason to be nice to you? No, you haven't. But I at least made the attempt to be polite to you anyway. I apologised to you last night, remember? I said I was genuinely sorry for any offense I caused. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm being hostile. You said you didn't hold grudges. Clearly that's not the case.

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    • You are not polite. You have called us ignorant, idiots, you made yourself like the most intelligent person. We have also countered your arguments, but you don't even look at them in a non-biased way which allows you to actually make a reasonable thing, and I did read your stuff, but they are so long, I can not read it fully. Also, I have full and total right to debate you. No one has less or more right to debate. So you trying to say I can not talk about this is just plan rude. I should also state that you should stop saying you are better then yourself. We are all equals here, you like it or not. NO ONE has a better opinion. All opinions are taken as equals until voted on by a group of people that is not restricted by rules of how to vote. You should maybe respect the voters. I would feel if they were siding with you, you would be speaking a whole other tale, about how the voters are great and we are the big losers, and that we should stop calling people names, and being rude to each other. Also, the thing about the verification from staff is due to the fact that the staff contradict all the times, and that we can not make decisive decisions on four dif opinions on something. Also, the reason we would ban you is we have rules about slandering normal users, e.g. the voters. So please stop all the name calling and claiming you are smarter. This wiki will not accept this behavior from you or any other user who uses the wiki this way.

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    • I never said you didn't have the right to debate this. I never called you idiots. I never called anyone any names whatsoever. I never stated that my opinion was worth more value than the opinions of others. I never made out that I was more intelligent than anyone else. I never  called anyone a loser. I never deliberately acted rude and, if I did, I apologised for it in the same message I never deliberately slandered anyone. I may not be as polite as you wanted me to be, Man. But at least I actually made an attempt to be so.

      This conversation holds no value to me any more. Yet I am still being antagonized and having judgements made about what kind of person I am and, somehow, I'm the one who's being rude. Just because I was right doesn't mean I'm sat here, smirking and saying "Hah! Losers" to myself. And defending myself isn't disrespectful.

      Are you done? 'Cause I'm done. I am very much done. This started out as a logical, reasonable, mature discussion. If this is to become a shouting match, I'm not going to contribute to it.

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    • TheMightyContorted wrote: I'm the one being arrogant? I said that I hated acting like a cocky, stuck up jerk but what I said was true. There is little to no valid evidence to state that Flaky is Female. The only main member of the HTF crew that says so for sure is Warren. Rhode says he's a Boy, and both Ken Pontac and Kenn Navarro say his gender is up to interpretation. Also, you can't "win" an argument. It's a discussion, not a competition. The closest you can come to "winning" is proving the opposing side wrong while not being proved wrong yourself. I did both.

      Also, as I have stated, if you're not even going to bother reading my replies, then you don't have the credibility to state that my argument was flawed. I used common sense and all my points were either backed up by reasonable logic or pure facts. None of you were able to prove me wrong, in fact. Sure, the community has spoken. But as long as they believe in information that has been proven false and invalid, I still hold the intelligent higher ground. What the vote ends on doesn't matter to me.

      Honestly, you need to stop antagonizing me. Just because I proved you wrong doesn't mean you get to be rude and genuinely unkind to me. I'm not just some asshole that wanted to kick up some controversy so I could brag about "oh, how great I am!". You can sit there and smile all you want, but the information you're basing his gender on is still wrong.

      You are the very definition of arrogant. You are also an expert in controdicting yourself. You are writing that there is no way to win in a discussion. However, there is an exeption if the person can proove the other person wrong. And yet below, you write that none of us could proove you wrong, which mean that you now are already declaring yourself the "winner". Even if it's obviously just your own opinion. Just as it's just my own opinion that it's just BS. As for your comments, this is how debates work in the real world. The debater is getting an amount of time and then the host breaks it up and then go to the next debater. Are you seriously believing that somebody cares to listen to the first debater if he just ignores the host and just goes on and on? Well, you was mostly just repeating yourself, so it was not like your longer comments gave me anything new. I also like how you first write "Stop antagonizing me!" and then in the same sentace continue the arrogance by claiming that you are right and everybody else are wrong. Your interlligent arguments are pretty laughable too. Yeah, because a HTF argument over the internet really shows peoples interlligent. A classic. /Kenny Navarro (talk)

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    • In the "real world", people aren't verbally attacked for proving the opposing party wrong. Those who do attack people for having differing opinions are disgusting and prejudiced. I'm walking away. I suggest you do the same. Good night.

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    • TheMightyContorted wrote: In the "real world", people aren't verbally attacked for proving the opposing party wrong. Those who do attack people for having differing opinions are disgusting and prejudiced. I'm walking away. I suggest you do the same. Good night.

      Yeah, you are correct. How could we not spot that? We, the Administration have really attacked your opinions. You on the other hand has been doing nothing wrong. Yeah, Creeper is really disgusting indeed. And Sandgar is prejucicing like nobody else here. And I am the biggest asshole on the entire Wiki. We should all be so ashamed. By now, you probably understand that I was just being nothing else but sarcastic. Nobody has attacked you, but most of us are feeling that you are just an arrogant sore loser, who cannot accept the whole fact that an majority disagrees with you. And you are always braging about your facts, so it's really shame that you are missing that fact. The fact that you lost and that the majority disagrees with you. It's really a shame to be in a minority in these kind of things. However, the majority has spooken and that is just it. Well, I rather stay here and good night. /Kenny Navarro (talk)

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    • I want to walk away and call it quits, but this is genuinely shocking. Aren't you an Admin? Shouldn't you be setting a mature example? C'mon, dude. You're quite clearly a nice guy. Is there any reason for this behaviour?

      I couldn't care less whether or not I "lost" the vote because I never thought the vote was necessary in the first place. I've said that multiple times. Multiple staff members at MondoMedia have said that Flaky's gender is up to interpretation, and, in my opinion, Mondo's words are more important than the fandom's. They created the characters, not the fans, Everyone has the right to let their opinion about said characters known, in fact. So how about you tell me why, when I used solid facts to back up the statements I made in my opinion, it receives so much backlash that the argument loses its sense of maturity and just devolves into a shouting match? If I was wrong, prove it. If my argument is so "laughably incorrect", prove that what I said was wrong. Go ahead, I'll wait.

      I mean, come on dude. Let's take this down a notch. We're both respectable guys. There's no need to be so Childish. Calling me an "arrogant sore loser"' is just uncalled for. You're blowing what I've said way out of proportions and being judgemental. You can't disprove my point, so you've resorted to name-calling and mockery. None of the statements I made were directed at anyone in particular, so let's just stop overreacting and call it a day, huh?

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    • TheMightyContorted
      TheMightyContorted removed this reply because:
      Well, nobody is listening. And I don't particularly want to fuel the fire.
      23:59, September 7, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Well, what you gave us is three staff with totally different opinions. Which one do we make canon, the two that say she is female, the one that says unknow, or the one that says male.

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    • You misread. Only one member of the main HTF Production team thinks that Flaky is Female. One person thinks he's a Boy, Rhode Montijo, and two people say that the gender can be anything. Kenn Navarro and Ken Pontac. To be honest, I've already told you why you should consider what Navarro said canon, but you haven't been reading my arguments properly, so...

      Alright...listen. This thread is turning into a disaster waiting to happen, alright? Sooner or later someone is gonna say something that they will undoubtedly live to regret. I don't want anyone here to lose sleep over this, because it simply doesn't matter. If you don't believe my statements, fine. I couldn't care less. If you don't believe my evidence, again, I don't particularly care. What I care about is maturity and dignity. And this thread no longer contains much of that.

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    • Thing is. We are changing policy after the Flaky vote. So unless spoken on a validated and neutral source. No staff statements will be taken as canon. We will even inform Kenn, Warren and mondo. This policy change is needed. And I did read your arguements. And I plaim disagree with them, and I used your statements, and mine, and I made an educated decision, and I do not support the male theory.

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    • TheMightyContorted wrote:

      I want to walk away and call it quits, but this is genuinely shocking. Aren't you an Admin? Shouldn't you be setting a mature example? C'mon, dude. You're quite clearly a nice guy. Is there any reason for this behaviour?

      I couldn't care less whether or not I "lost" the vote because I never thought the vote was necessary in the first place. I've said that multiple times. Multiple staff members at MondoMedia have said that Flaky's gender is up to interpretation, and, in my opinion, Mondo's words are more important than the fandom's. They created the characters, not the fans, Everyone has the right to let their opinion about said characters known, in fact. So how about you tell me why, when I used solid facts to back up the statements I made in my opinion, it receives so much backlash that the argument loses its sense of maturity and just devolves into a shouting match? If I was wrong, prove it. If my argument is so "laughably incorrect", prove that what I said was wrong. Go ahead, I'll wait.

      I mean, come on dude. Let's take this down a notch. We're both respectable guys. There's no need to be so Childish. Calling me an "arrogant sore loser"' is just uncalled for. You're blowing what I've said way out of proportions and being judgemental. You can't disprove my point, so you've resorted to name-calling and mockery. None of the statements I made were directed at anyone in particular, so let's just stop overreacting and call it a day, huh?

      Well, you actually returned back to discuss here, so obviously you didn't. Well, I see nothing wrong with my behavior. I just did a harmless joke about you playing the victim card. It has nothing to do with being mature. I do believe that you are a nice guy too. You have not come out as a troll or a hater yet and that is good. Here is the thing and I hope that you understands. Once this voting over, then it's truelly over. You are still very free to have your opinion regarding Flaky's gender, but forcing your opinions on others and keep on the arguing really doesn't get you anywhere. If somebody contact you on your message wall and wish to discuss the matter with you, then it's one thing. And that is alright, as long as you are both up for the discussion. However, go from one wall to another wall and argue or continue on this soon closed thread has no purpose at all. Also, you have actually been acting like this "arrogant sore loser" and that is why we are having these discussions and that is also why I called you that too. Well, nobody has overreacted as far as I could see. Maybe yourself? However, you have in you latest posts showed a decent interest of ending these discussions and hopefully we could take your words for it this time. /Kenny Navarro (talk)

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    • KennyX1994 wrote:

      TheMightyContorted wrote:

      I want to walk away and call it quits, but this is genuinely shocking. Aren't you an Admin? Shouldn't you be setting a mature example? C'mon, dude. You're quite clearly a nice guy. Is there any reason for this behaviour?

      I couldn't care less whether or not I "lost" the vote because I never thought the vote was necessary in the first place. I've said that multiple times. Multiple staff members at MondoMedia have said that Flaky's gender is up to interpretation, and, in my opinion, Mondo's words are more important than the fandom's. They created the characters, not the fans, Everyone has the right to let their opinion about said characters known, in fact. So how about you tell me why, when I used solid facts to back up the statements I made in my opinion, it receives so much backlash that the argument loses its sense of maturity and just devolves into a shouting match? If I was wrong, prove it. If my argument is so "laughably incorrect", prove that what I said was wrong. Go ahead, I'll wait.

      I mean, come on dude. Let's take this down a notch. We're both respectable guys. There's no need to be so Childish. Calling me an "arrogant sore loser"' is just uncalled for. You're blowing what I've said way out of proportions and being judgemental. You can't disprove my point, so you've resorted to name-calling and mockery. None of the statements I made were directed at anyone in particular, so let's just stop overreacting and call it a day, huh?

      Well, you actually returned back to discuss here, so obviously you didn't. Well, I see nothing wrong with my behavior. I just did a harmless joke about you playing the victim card. It has nothing to do with being mature. I do believe that you are a nice guy too. You have not come out as a troll or a hater yet and that is good. Here is the thing and I hope that you understands. Once this voting over, then it's truelly over. You are still very free to have your opinion regarding Flaky's gender, but forcing your opinions on others and keep on the arguing really doesn't get you anywhere. If somebody contact you on your message wall and wish to discuss the matter with you, then it's one thing. And that is alright, as long as you are both up for the discussion. However, go from one wall to another wall and argue or continue on this soon closed thread has no purpose at all. Also, you have actually been acting like this "arrogant sore loser" and that is why we are having these discussions and that is also why I called you that too. Well, nobody has overreacted as far as I could see. Maybe yourself? However, you have in you latest posts showed a decent interest of ending these discussions and hopefully we could take your words for it this time. /Kenny Navarro (talk)

      You literally called me an arrogant loser. That's not really a joke. My argument is built on pretty solid facts and evidence. I mean, the screenshot I took of Kenn's comment on the matter back in 2014 backed up my argument pretty well. I tried to keep my own opinion out of it, which is why I'm suggesting that the gender be changed to Unknown rather than Male. I'm not forcing my own opinion out of it because my opinion is a different point to the one I made in my argument. I asked someone to proofread my responses for me, in fact, and they found nothing wrong with it at all.

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    • TheMightyContorted wrote:

      KennyX1994 wrote:

      TheMightyContorted wrote:

      I want to walk away and call it quits, but this is genuinely shocking. Aren't you an Admin? Shouldn't you be setting a mature example? C'mon, dude. You're quite clearly a nice guy. Is there any reason for this behaviour?

      I couldn't care less whether or not I "lost" the vote because I never thought the vote was necessary in the first place. I've said that multiple times. Multiple staff members at MondoMedia have said that Flaky's gender is up to interpretation, and, in my opinion, Mondo's words are more important than the fandom's. They created the characters, not the fans, Everyone has the right to let their opinion about said characters known, in fact. So how about you tell me why, when I used solid facts to back up the statements I made in my opinion, it receives so much backlash that the argument loses its sense of maturity and just devolves into a shouting match? If I was wrong, prove it. If my argument is so "laughably incorrect", prove that what I said was wrong. Go ahead, I'll wait.

      I mean, come on dude. Let's take this down a notch. We're both respectable guys. There's no need to be so Childish. Calling me an "arrogant sore loser"' is just uncalled for. You're blowing what I've said way out of proportions and being judgemental. You can't disprove my point, so you've resorted to name-calling and mockery. None of the statements I made were directed at anyone in particular, so let's just stop overreacting and call it a day, huh?

      Well, you actually returned back to discuss here, so obviously you didn't. Well, I see nothing wrong with my behavior. I just did a harmless joke about you playing the victim card. It has nothing to do with being mature. I do believe that you are a nice guy too. You have not come out as a troll or a hater yet and that is good. Here is the thing and I hope that you understands. Once this voting over, then it's truelly over. You are still very free to have your opinion regarding Flaky's gender, but forcing your opinions on others and keep on the arguing really doesn't get you anywhere. If somebody contact you on your message wall and wish to discuss the matter with you, then it's one thing. And that is alright, as long as you are both up for the discussion. However, go from one wall to another wall and argue or continue on this soon closed thread has no purpose at all. Also, you have actually been acting like this "arrogant sore loser" and that is why we are having these discussions and that is also why I called you that too. Well, nobody has overreacted as far as I could see. Maybe yourself? However, you have in you latest posts showed a decent interest of ending these discussions and hopefully we could take your words for it this time. /Kenny Navarro (talk)

      You literally called me an arrogant loser. That's not really a joke. My argument is built on pretty solid facts and evidence. I mean, the screenshot I took of Kenn's comment on the matter back in 2014 backed up my argument pretty well. I tried to keep my own opinion out of it, which is why I'm suggesting that the gender be changed to Unknown rather than Male. I'm not forcing my own opinion out of it because my opinion is a different point to the one I made in my argument. I asked someone to proofread my responses for me, in fact, and they found nothing wrong with it at all.

      And here I assumed that you would take a break for the night or even better stop arguing all together. How wrong of me to think such things. Now who is jumping to conclusions this time? I have never been calling you an "arrogant loser" before. However, I have been calling you an "arrogant sore loser" before. Wait, so you do not know the difference? Then I am going to take my sweet time to explain it for you. Calling somebody a loser is an insult, yes. However, a sore loser is something completly different. A sore loser means that you have trouble to accept the whole fact that the majority disagree with your opinions and that you are still willing to continue trying no matter what. Are you catching on? You see? It wasn't that hard. Changing it to unknown is still your opinion. You want it changed and that is your own opinion. This is not freaking rocket science. Ah, so you were asking "someone" to proofread your respondses and now thanks to this "person" we must all accept that there is nothing wrong with your messages? I do not even know what to respond to this. I think that I am just settling for a BS. The rest of the text you wrote down was just you repeating yourself and it's just pointless to respond to that again. /Kenny Navarro (talk)

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    • I'm so confused with Flaky's gender, because she is a female but don't have any eyelashes, not wearing accessories that colored feminine (unless if you no support this), and likes hanging out with boys than girls. Flaky has feminine voices and has a long hair but she's a tomboy. Her personalities are timid, shy and coward that doesn't matched up with tomboy who usually bold, rebellious and rough. (Also I forget, her color is red which is so ironic).

      Kenn, please explain this, why you do this?

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    • 42Andre24 & 31Susan13 wrote: I'm so confused with Flaky's gender, because she is a female but don't have any eyelashes, not wearing accessories that colored feminine (unless if you no support this), and likes hanging out with boys than girls. Flaky has feminine voices and has a long hair but she's a tomboy. Her personalities are timid, shy and coward that doesn't matched up with tomboy who usually bold, rebellious and rough. (Also I forget, her color is red which is so ironic).

      Kenn, please explain this, why you do this?

      Well, not all tomboys in this world are bold, rebellious and rough. Well, I can assure you that there are probably several of tomboys out there, which atleast have a kind of simular perdonallity as Flaky. :) /Kenny Navarro (talk)

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    • KennyX1994 wrote:

      "And here I assumed that you would take a break for the night or even better stop arguing all together. How wrong of me to think such things. Now who is jumping to conclusions this time? I have never been calling you an "arrogant loser" before. However, I have been calling you an "arrogant sore loser" before. Wait, so you do not know the difference? Then I am going to take my sweet time to explain it for you. Calling somebody a loser is an insult, yes. However, a sore loser is something completly different. A sore loser means that you have trouble to accept the whole fact that the majority disagree with your opinions and that you are still willing to continue trying no matter what. Are you catching on? You see? It wasn't that hard. Changing it to unknown is still your opinion. You want it changed and that is your own opinion. This is not freaking rocket science. Ah, so you were asking "someone" to proofread your respondses and now thanks to this "person" we must all accept that there is nothing wrong with your messages? I do not even know what to respond to this. I think that I am just settling for a BS. The rest of the text you wrote down was just you repeating yourself and it's just pointless to respond to that again. /Kenny Navarro (talk)"

      I did, actually. I assumed that you'd given up arguing as well, but I suppose I was wrong on that note. I wasn't gonna come on the wiki today, but I decided to be polite and read what you had to say, as tiresome as it is.

      Yes, it is my opinion that Flaky is a Boy. But my opinion is backed up by logical evidence and facts. How hard is this for you to understand? I think that Flaky's gender should be changed to "Unknown" because multiple people on the HTF team at Mondo have stated that Flaky's gender can be whatever the fans want it to be. So to restrict the canon to one gender is a little silly. Kenn Navarro and Ken Pontac both stated that Flaky's gender is up to interpretation. Only Warren Graff has stated he's a Girl. And there is very little valid evidence to suggest he is a Girl in the first place.

      Also, I never said the person's proofreading was to be of any importance to you, so I dunno why I'm having that thrown at me. In fact, I didn't expect you to give two Monkey's nuts in the first place. I just asked him to proofread my argument 'cause I wanted to have an outside opinion on how valid the points I was conveying were. I didn't want to make any mistakes, so I asked him to thoroughly read the whole argument and he said it was fine, so I continued conveying my point. And nobody has been able to prove me wrong. Progress, my friend.

      Also, for Christ's sake, calling someone a loser regardless is still a pretty Childish thing to do. You're also holding onto the immature argument that "Lol we won you lost". I mean, seriously. You're a high-ranking Admin. Grow up. It's a vote with a discussion. Not a game of football. Calm yourself, my judgemental friend. We are all buddies here. I could have said "I think you're a judgemental, Childish jerk", but I didn't because I don't know you, therefore don't reserve the right or the knowledge to make judgemental statements about you. Don't try to justify saying "We all think you're an arrogant sore loser" like you're not a complete Child for saying it in the first place.

      Also, for God's sake, you seem to fail to understand that it doesn't matter if the majority doesn't agree with me. I couldn't care whether or not anybody disagreed with me because nobody managed to prove me wrong. In fact, several people stated that I made some very good points. You're still trying to dent the validity of my argument and failing quite miserably. I mean, what has the argument even devolved into now? This is no longer a discussion because you started mocking me and judging me, turning this once mature and reasonable discussion into an immature shouting match. Shame on you, good sir.

      I'm kidding, obviously. I love you guys.

      See, your problem is that you expect me to care that people don't agree with me. You can't prove me wrong, you can't find a loophole in my argument, so you just label it as "BS" and act like I'm a fool. Admit it. You're just repeating yourself now and clinging onto whatever argument you have left. All of your points have turned into judgemental, immature and overall invalid statements that leave the structure of your argument scattered all over the place. How disappointing. And here I was preparing to give you the benefit of the doubt...

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    • 42Andre24 & 31Susan13 wrote:
      "I'm so confused with Flaky's gender, because she is a female but don't have any eyelashes, not wearing accessories that colored feminine (unless if you no support this), and likes hanging out with boys than girls. Flaky has feminine voices and has a long hair but she's a tomboy. Her personalities are timid, shy and coward that doesn't matched up with tomboy who usually bold, rebellious and rough. (Also I forget, her color is red which is so ironic).

      Kenn, please explain this, why you do this?"

      Kenn sort of explained that Flaky's gender is still supposed to be sort of all over the place, y'know? Like, it can go any way. It just seems like some people are prejudiced against it not going their way. Not too many people on this wiki, thank God. But a lot of the HTF community as a whole.

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    • TheMightyContorted wrote:

      KennyX1994 wrote:

      "And here I assumed that you would take a break for the night or even better stop arguing all together. How wrong of me to think such things. Now who is jumping to conclusions this time? I have never been calling you an "arrogant loser" before. However, I have been calling you an "arrogant sore loser" before. Wait, so you do not know the difference? Then I am going to take my sweet time to explain it for you. Calling somebody a loser is an insult, yes. However, a sore loser is something completly different. A sore loser means that you have trouble to accept the whole fact that the majority disagree with your opinions and that you are still willing to continue trying no matter what. Are you catching on? You see? It wasn't that hard. Changing it to unknown is still your opinion. You want it changed and that is your own opinion. This is not freaking rocket science. Ah, so you were asking "someone" to proofread your respondses and now thanks to this "person" we must all accept that there is nothing wrong with your messages? I do not even know what to respond to this. I think that I am just settling for a BS. The rest of the text you wrote down was just you repeating yourself and it's just pointless to respond to that again. /Kenny Navarro (talk)"

      I did, actually. I assumed that you'd given up arguing as well, but I suppose I was wrong on that note. I wasn't gonna come on the wiki today, but I decided to be polite and read what you had to say, as tiresome as it is.

      Yes, it is my opinion that Flaky is a Boy. But my opinion is backed up by logical evidence and facts. How hard is this for you to understand? I think that Flaky's gender should be changed to "Unknown" because multiple people on the HTF team at Mondo have stated that Flaky's gender can be whatever the fans want it to be. So to restrict the canon to one gender is a little silly. Kenn Navarro and Ken Pontac both stated that Flaky's gender is up to interpretation. Only Warren Graff has stated he's a Girl. And there is very little valid evidence to suggest he is a Girl in the first place.

      Also, I never said the person's proofreading was to be of any importance to you, so I dunno why I'm having that thrown at me. In fact, I didn't expect you to give two Monkey's nuts in the first place. I just asked him to proofread my argument 'cause I wanted to have an outside opinion on how valid the points I was conveying were. I didn't want to make any mistakes, so I asked him to thoroughly read the whole argument and he said it was fine, so I continued conveying my point. And nobody has been able to prove me wrong. Progress, my friend.

      Also, for Christ's sake, calling someone a loser regardless is still a pretty Childish thing to do. You're also holding onto the immature argument that "Lol we won you lost". I mean, seriously. You're a high-ranking Admin. Grow up. It's a vote with a discussion. Not a game of football. Calm yourself, my judgemental friend. We are all buddies here. I could have said "I think you're a judgemental, Childish jerk", but I didn't because I don't know you, therefore don't reserve the right or the knowledge to make judgemental statements about you. Don't try to justify saying "We all think you're an arrogant sore loser" like you're not a complete Child for saying it in the first place.

      Also, for God's sake, you seem to fail to understand that it doesn't matter if the majority doesn't agree with me. I couldn't care whether or not anybody disagreed with me because nobody managed to prove me wrong. In fact, several people stated that I made some very good points. You're still trying to dent the validity of my argument and failing quite miserably. I mean, what has the argument even devolved into now? This is no longer a discussion because you started mocking me and judging me, turning this once mature and reasonable discussion into an immature shouting match. Shame on you, good sir.

      I'm kidding, obviously. I love you guys.

      See, your problem is that you expect me to care that people don't agree with me. You can't prove me wrong, you can't find a loophole in my argument, so you just label it as "BS" and act like I'm a fool. Admit it. You're just repeating yourself now and clinging onto whatever argument you have left. All of your points have turned into judgemental, immature and overall invalid statements that leave the structure of your argument scattered all over the place. How disappointing. And here I was preparing to give you the benefit of the doubt...

      Yeah, on your blog-post I did. Your comments has not been as long as in your blog-post. It's just your opinions, which you are refering to "logical evidence" and "facts". How hard is it to understand? Well, then why did you brought up that person then? Why would this even matter? Well, you still are an arrogant sore loser and I am just being honest with you. Honesty is a good thing. I do not see the problem in wanting to win. We had a vote if we should use your suggestions or not to and the community choosed not to. Which, mean that your changes will not come into reality here on this Wiki. I am pretty sure that is a victory for most of us on this Wiki and even if you are refusing to admit it, I know that you are seeing it as a loss. Otherwise, you would not still be here arguing. And that's where the "Arrogant Sore Loser" get's into the picture. It's just your opinion, that nobody could proof you wrong. Just as it's my opinion, that I prooved you wrong in your blog-post. Yeah and you have been acting so mature and all I am doing, is judging and mocking you. Well, what a cruel monster I must be. The victim card is here again. Well, you have done the very same thing when you have argued, but you do not see me complain about it. One thing you keep om doing and I guess that it's part of your arrogance, is that you are trying to dumb down the other debater by over using the victim card and making it sound like I am just attacking you. It's no point to keep arguing with your Flaky arguments, since you are just repeating yourself. Also, we are not buddies either. /Kenny Navarro (talk)

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    • omg scrolling down all the way here is so much work and this post is gonna just get covered up by another long post.

      And despite my vote, I really hope it is called unknown so I don't have to read all this, and it makes arguments like this unneeded. Also, it will make everyone happy or neutral yay.

      I'm not voting...

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    • Starburst that is not how you vote. That is what this guy wants. Tonbuly users into voting for his stuff so he shuts up. If you feel bullied, or forced to do things. Please message me on my wall, and we can look into this.

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    • Sandgar wrote:
      "Starburst that is not how you vote. That is what this guy wants. Tonbuly users into voting for his stuff so he shuts up. If you feel bullied, or forced to do things. Please message me on my wall, and we can look into this."

      Woah. Woah...WOAH.

      Please explain to me where the Hell this came from? In what bloody way am I "bullying people" into voting to support the change? I have stated, multiple times, that the vote doesn't matter to me personally. All I am doing is making detailed points to support my argument. I'm not frickin' bullying anyone at all!

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    • KennyX1994 wrote:

      "Yeah, on your blog-post I did. Your comments has not been as long as in your blog-post. It's just your opinions, which you are refering to "logical evidence" and "facts". How hard is it to understand? Well, then why did you brought up that person then? Why would this even matter? Well, you still are an arrogant sore loser and I am just being honest with you. Honesty is a good thing. I do not see the problem in wanting to win. We had a vote if we should use your suggestions or not to and the community choosed not to. Which, mean that your changes will not come into reality here on this Wiki. I am pretty sure that is a victory for most of us on this Wiki and even if you are refusing to admit it, I know that you are seeing it as a loss. Otherwise, you would not still be here arguing. And that's where the "Arrogant Sore Loser" get's into the picture. It's just your opinion, that nobody could proof you wrong. Just as it's my opinion, that I prooved you wrong in your blog-post. Yeah and you have been acting so mature and all I am doing, is judging and mocking you. Well, what a cruel monster I must be. The victim card is here again. Well, you have done the very same thing when you have argued, but you do not see me complain about it. One thing you keep om doing and I guess that it's part of your arrogance, is that you are trying to dumb down the other debater by over using the victim card and making it sound like I am just attacking you. It's no point to keep arguing with your Flaky arguments, since you are just repeating yourself. Also, we are not buddies either. /Kenny Navarro (talk)"

      Oh, the pain...

      Alright. It's painfully obvious that you're either deliberately taking everything I say out of context, or just don't understand what I'm, getting at...like, at all.

      Let me just put something straight for you. I. Don't. Care. About. The. Vote.

      I made it abundantly clear at the start of this discussion that I value what MondoMedia says over what the fandom says because Mondo created the universe, not the fandom. I don't see why that's so damn hard for you to process. I couldn't give a Monkey's left nut. Or his right for that matter.

      I could give his appendix, 'cause that's fairly useless...but that's besides the point.

      You're losing credibility at this point. You're just repeating the same flawed, Childish argument over and over again. Yeah, so am I. But, guess what? My argument actually has a good bit of ground to stand on. Your argument currently consists of "You're an arrogant, sore loser! We won! You lost! We don't care what you think!" I mean, you've made the argument uncomfortably personal because you genuinely can't think of anything else that's more useful or more interesting to say. You didn't prove me wrong on my blog post, you just stopped responding. In fact, the argument I used on my blog post was the exact same as this one. If you couldn't prove my argument on this thread wrong, which you haven't, I doubt you did so on my blog post.

      As for the "victim card" thing? Honestly, I couldn't care less if you were mocking and judging me. In fact, I find it sort of amusing. Maybe even kinda cute. Just proves that you don't know how to argue properly. I mean, you didn't even refer to the ORIGINAL topic of this discussion. This thread was made for the purpose of discussing Flaky's gender. Instead of doing that, you're personally targeting me because you genuinely can't think of anything more valid to say on the topic of the discussion. Do I care? No. I mean, I'm shocked, 'cause you're an Admin and I wouldn't expect this level of immaturity from a literal member of staff on the wiki. But I honestly couldn't care what you think of me.

      Now are you gonna say something informative this time? Or just repeat the same half-baked argument? I have no doubt that you're most likely a good guy behind the keyboard. Just...stop embarrassing yourself, Man.

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    • Sandgar wrote:
      Starburst that is not how you vote. That is what this guy wants. Tonbuly users into voting for his stuff so he shuts up. If you feel bullied, or forced to do things. Please message me on my wall, and we can look into this.

      I'm not voting.

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    • It is fine. You are not forced to vote. I should inform you that TheMightyContorted has been banned for three days for this stuff. Mostly from spamming, and scaring users.

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    • Well, it was probably for the best that these discussions finally ended. As for you TheMightyContorted, I am now actually going to give you a compliment for once. I think that you are a good debater and that might come out handy for you. Even if you now didn't really felt the same about my own debating style, but whatever. :) /Kenny Navarro (talk)

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    • I am going to say this debate brought up a lot of things that this wiki needed to work on, and may bring on a new era for this wiki, which was needed for it to survive.

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    • Sandgar wrote: I am going to say this debate brought up a lot of things that this wiki needed to work on, and may bring on a new era for this wiki, which was needed for it to survive.

      Well spoken. :) /Kenny Navarro (talk)

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    • Kenn, can you give Flaky more personalities in future episodes? It'll be better to know if Flaky is female rather than male. (I'm sick to the fandom who drawing Flaky as male)

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    • 42Andre24 & 31Susan13 wrote: Kenn, can you give Flaky more personalities in future episodes? It'll be better to know if Flaky is female rather than male. (I'm sick to the fandom who drawing Flaky as male)

      Well, If they are ever making any more episodes again that is. I also want to clearify for you now that I am not Kenn Navarro. :) /Kenny Navarro (talk)

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    • I am closing this thread as I promised it be closed at the end of the Flaky Vote.

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